I hear that comment as a teacher, also. People seem to think teachers got into teaching because they love teaching and not for the money. Therefore, working long hours with no pay comes with being a teacher.
If I didn't get paid as a teacher or tutor, there is no way I would work for free. When I leave school after work, my work as a teacher also stops. I spend my time at home writing and doing other things.
The stupidest thing I heard was from a speaker at a workshop I attended. It went something like this:
If you love teaching, money doesn't matter. You would teach anyway.
Lol, if I didn't get paid for teaching, I would do something else.
It's sad to hear people think that way about writing. I write and want to get paid for it also.
It's so bizarre that they say that to teachers, too. I loved teaching my child to bake a cake. I have zero plans to run cake baking classes for free. I loved teaching my brother to build a website. I don't build them for free. People can be so ridiculous. lol
It's a vocation that can also be a career, but only in the right circumstances. It's not either/or; it's both/and.
I wrote both before and after I started earning money for it. Same process, same mindset. Nothing has really changed.
But the problem is that some earn little or no money from it, and others earn too much. The scales are not in the favor of the former because of the way the Internet forces us to haggle for attention so often.
Atwood and King both did jobs they didn't like for a long time before they could write full-time, and their situation is not unique. That's what everyone who touts writing as a career doesn't understand.
Ah, but here's the rub. Define too much. Is it obscene that James Patterson makes 70 million per year for writing? It's a lot. It's kind of an obscene amount of money. But yet, it's a fraction of the amount the publisher makes selling his books. Because he has so many of them it compounded over time.
Same on Medium. If a new writer has the same writing skill as me, but they have 100 followers and have published 9 stories and I have 34K followers and 900 stories, am I getting paid too much if I earn more than they do?
We are stepping on slippery ground once we start using words like too much, I think. I think the greater problem is that there are some good writers who don't earn enough. That is very valid. Very valid indeed. I wish I knew how to fix it.
The thing about James Patterson and other very successful formula writers is that they actually no longer do much of the writing. Look at their books. Almost always, you will see two names on the cover, his and another one you do not recognize. He and others like him give unknown authors a chance to 'show their stuff' using their names as magnets.
I have recently found Substack because I have read a daily newsletter from a writer with more than two million followers. I have been on Medium for years and not once have I done either "for the money." In fact, until the recent Medium algorithm change, I rarely made more than $0.25 per month. That's right, twenty five cents. One quarter of one U.S. dollar. And I don't care. I write, but I am not a writer. It really is not all about the money, no matter whether that can be comprehended or not. To demean my choice because one cannot understand it is the height of arrogance.
I loved that writer's comment! I love to write and have never shied away from talking about earnings - it is still a hobby for me but it's great when the hobby earns - and with regards to the 'great writing' part - oh well - I've been called inauthentic, writing for impressionable readers and whatnot - I think that is so presumptuous and patronizing - but the good thing is it was just a few who had an ax to grind
Excellent post as always, Linda! This has been something I’ve been juggling with since writing on Medium. Being humble doesn’t mean you should starve and I wish people stopped preaching that.
Not only do I want people to love my writing but I want to provide for my family too. Is that so bad? People always underrate how vital writers are. If there were no writers, there would be no stories. No stories mean no books, no TV shows, no entertainment. Can people live with that?
Once people realise how important writers are, I think they’ll stop preaching the whole “free” agenda.
Well said. I've been contemplating writing an article on this topic too! That I want to get paid doesn't mean I put "less" into my work. Also, getting paid allows me to direct more of my energy into writing. I guess most writers have a contentious relationship with money, but we still need it. Thanks for writing!
I wish I could find a plumber that fixes sinks for the joy of it. Because mine is plugged. lol. You are a really strong writer and should get paid. If you were in the free camp, I'd give you a stern talking to. lol.
Totally agree that getting paid lets us put more energy into it. If Stephen King didn't get paid, he'd still be teaching college English. And Liz Gilbert would be slinging drinks at the bar she used to bartend at.
Anytime I offer that people should treat their newsletter like a business (even if they don't want it to *be* a business), someone tut-tuts me with the usual "you should only write for the love of it" type stuff.
There's a also a segment of readers online that consistently announce that they will unsubscribe for any newsletter/writer that dares put up a paywall.
Both leave me shaking my head.
You can love to write and want to be paid for it. Those thoughts can exist at the same time. And my stance isn't some revolutionary take- we've just been conditioned think everything online should be free for so long that people see it that way.
I once read about a woman who used to believe everything should be free online. Then she wrote a book and shortly after paying for some publicity, she learned it was being downloaded free on pirating sites. Even worse, the free download ranked above her own site or amazon listing in Google. She was so upset. Because that was hours and hours of her life and she expected to get paid, because it's HER book, but people expected to get it free. Just like she used to believe before her own work was for sale.
Most people will never learn that lesson. They will keep on paying for their rent and groceries and expecting "online" stuff to be free, without realizing or caring that writers also have bills. But knowing one person had her own beliefs bite her in the butt made me feel somewhat vindicated. lol
You struck a chord here with me. Getting righteous about money and writing is just another way writers sabotage themselves. Getting paid is what makes us professionals and I am a professional communicator, so I expect readers to pay something to read my stuff, if they can.
Thanks for touching on this important but infuriating subject.
Since we're doing comments, here's one of mine from an exchange I had back when I was an agent:
If you want to make a living from writing books, you go where the money is. That does not only mean genre, but a polished product: a well-crafted, compelling story AIMED at an audience that pays money to read it. The people who repeatedly sell thousands of books write to meet audience expectations. That’s a business mindset, and like any business tactic it requires research and targeted effort. The idea you should only write for the sake of art, that you should make something only for yourself, is non-artist BS. It is rooted in the centuries old starving-artist mythology and tries to perpetuate an imagined reality. Many of the old masters, classic composers, modern talents like Picasso, Puzo, Patterson, Tan, Follet, Heinlein, and hundreds more A-list authors have created for the express purpose of selling the work (read their interviews, they will happily tell you so). Art for art’s sake is more the credo of the spectator than the working artist. This isn’t to say that targeting a market won’t intersect with your “passion.” It happens all the time. But making a consistent living through your creative work—the artist’s dream—rests squarely upon your ability to make work that sells. -JM
I do write because I enjoy it. I'm retired with a nice pension, and I don't NEED the money. For years, I never considered publishing. Then came a tipping point when I decided that I wanted to share my work. Just writing was no longer enough; I started to need an audience, which put me in a different mindset altogether. Writing escalated from a personal hobby to an avocation, and if I wanted to consider myself a successful author, I needed to improve my skill set. I also realized that I'd have to learn about marketing if I wanted to find readers who like what I do. Just looking for my tribe, may fans—I know they are out there. Just gotta find 'em.. That's been a journey and a half, too. Also not free, and still in progress.
I still don't NEED the money, but now I want it. For one thing, self-publishing comes with costs. For another, I've invested in becoming a better, more polished writer. That didn't happen by accident, nor was it free...and it's ongoing. Then, marketing...
I think of people buying my work as an affirmation that I'm doing something right. A kudos, if you will. And making more money than I spend is my benchmark; that's when I can say I'm an author without blushing. I still write because I love it, but it is so much more now. I don't need financial success as a writer, but now I view it as a measure of success. And yes, I also want the money for it's own sake.
I have never hidden my desire and my right to get paid for my writing. In my 4 years on Medium I've openly admitted that more than once. And, like David said, I've been writing online since long before I started earning money for it.
I held off making writing my career for five years because I wasn't sure writers earned any money. Then I quit and quickly began earning more than I ever had (as a freelance content marketer). That image, I believe, is still there for fiction writers, but it's worse. Not only do they not make money, we're not even sure if they should.
Hogwash.
They absolutely should. A dedicated writer who earns enough to sustain themselves has a much higher chance to write more and better books.
I can't pledge my support right now, but I will, trust me. I like your writing and as soon as i get my substack Newsletter finished and published i'll get back to you. I am an actor, but early on I discovered it wasn't going to be a financial windfall. I do it for one reason at 82 years old I need the challenge and i enjoy doing it. But I would love to make money at it, but i don't. Only 12 percent of actors who belong to SAGA make enough to survive. I think it's less than 30K a year. There are literally thousands who do it for the love of doing it. They work their butts off as waitresses or waiter or painters, or they work at trader joes or have other jobs.
Linda, you and I are in vehement agreement on this point. It's absurd to expect artists of any kind to be self-sacrificial — especially if they're pursuing their art or craft as a full-on profession.
As David said, some great writers don't earn enough to support themselves only through writing. Very few writers make a good living. So, under such circumstances, money should not determine whether we should continue writing.
And as to James Patterson, he earned the title "factory writer." I bet he doesn't do most of his writing anymore. He has become an institution. But his case is above and beyond reasonable. For the rest of us, we have to plug along and do the best we can. And to go into this profession with the illusion that we don't care to make money is a fallacy.
Also, there are other reasons to write. Some seek fame and fortune. Others for the respect of family peers. Or what is purely noble is purely to impact positively on the world.
In short, we should continue writing whether it makes us rich or not.
I hear that comment as a teacher, also. People seem to think teachers got into teaching because they love teaching and not for the money. Therefore, working long hours with no pay comes with being a teacher.
If I didn't get paid as a teacher or tutor, there is no way I would work for free. When I leave school after work, my work as a teacher also stops. I spend my time at home writing and doing other things.
The stupidest thing I heard was from a speaker at a workshop I attended. It went something like this:
If you love teaching, money doesn't matter. You would teach anyway.
Lol, if I didn't get paid for teaching, I would do something else.
It's sad to hear people think that way about writing. I write and want to get paid for it also.
Thank you for sharing.
It's so bizarre that they say that to teachers, too. I loved teaching my child to bake a cake. I have zero plans to run cake baking classes for free. I loved teaching my brother to build a website. I don't build them for free. People can be so ridiculous. lol
It's a vocation that can also be a career, but only in the right circumstances. It's not either/or; it's both/and.
I wrote both before and after I started earning money for it. Same process, same mindset. Nothing has really changed.
But the problem is that some earn little or no money from it, and others earn too much. The scales are not in the favor of the former because of the way the Internet forces us to haggle for attention so often.
Atwood and King both did jobs they didn't like for a long time before they could write full-time, and their situation is not unique. That's what everyone who touts writing as a career doesn't understand.
Ah, but here's the rub. Define too much. Is it obscene that James Patterson makes 70 million per year for writing? It's a lot. It's kind of an obscene amount of money. But yet, it's a fraction of the amount the publisher makes selling his books. Because he has so many of them it compounded over time.
Same on Medium. If a new writer has the same writing skill as me, but they have 100 followers and have published 9 stories and I have 34K followers and 900 stories, am I getting paid too much if I earn more than they do?
We are stepping on slippery ground once we start using words like too much, I think. I think the greater problem is that there are some good writers who don't earn enough. That is very valid. Very valid indeed. I wish I knew how to fix it.
The thing about James Patterson and other very successful formula writers is that they actually no longer do much of the writing. Look at their books. Almost always, you will see two names on the cover, his and another one you do not recognize. He and others like him give unknown authors a chance to 'show their stuff' using their names as magnets.
I have recently found Substack because I have read a daily newsletter from a writer with more than two million followers. I have been on Medium for years and not once have I done either "for the money." In fact, until the recent Medium algorithm change, I rarely made more than $0.25 per month. That's right, twenty five cents. One quarter of one U.S. dollar. And I don't care. I write, but I am not a writer. It really is not all about the money, no matter whether that can be comprehended or not. To demean my choice because one cannot understand it is the height of arrogance.
I loved that writer's comment! I love to write and have never shied away from talking about earnings - it is still a hobby for me but it's great when the hobby earns - and with regards to the 'great writing' part - oh well - I've been called inauthentic, writing for impressionable readers and whatnot - I think that is so presumptuous and patronizing - but the good thing is it was just a few who had an ax to grind
Taste is subjective and it's a shame some of those people don't see that. :)
Excellent post as always, Linda! This has been something I’ve been juggling with since writing on Medium. Being humble doesn’t mean you should starve and I wish people stopped preaching that.
Not only do I want people to love my writing but I want to provide for my family too. Is that so bad? People always underrate how vital writers are. If there were no writers, there would be no stories. No stories mean no books, no TV shows, no entertainment. Can people live with that?
Once people realise how important writers are, I think they’ll stop preaching the whole “free” agenda.
Exactly, right? A world with no writing would be a horrible place to live.
Well said. I've been contemplating writing an article on this topic too! That I want to get paid doesn't mean I put "less" into my work. Also, getting paid allows me to direct more of my energy into writing. I guess most writers have a contentious relationship with money, but we still need it. Thanks for writing!
I wish I could find a plumber that fixes sinks for the joy of it. Because mine is plugged. lol. You are a really strong writer and should get paid. If you were in the free camp, I'd give you a stern talking to. lol.
Totally agree that getting paid lets us put more energy into it. If Stephen King didn't get paid, he'd still be teaching college English. And Liz Gilbert would be slinging drinks at the bar she used to bartend at.
Anytime I offer that people should treat their newsletter like a business (even if they don't want it to *be* a business), someone tut-tuts me with the usual "you should only write for the love of it" type stuff.
There's a also a segment of readers online that consistently announce that they will unsubscribe for any newsletter/writer that dares put up a paywall.
Both leave me shaking my head.
You can love to write and want to be paid for it. Those thoughts can exist at the same time. And my stance isn't some revolutionary take- we've just been conditioned think everything online should be free for so long that people see it that way.
I once read about a woman who used to believe everything should be free online. Then she wrote a book and shortly after paying for some publicity, she learned it was being downloaded free on pirating sites. Even worse, the free download ranked above her own site or amazon listing in Google. She was so upset. Because that was hours and hours of her life and she expected to get paid, because it's HER book, but people expected to get it free. Just like she used to believe before her own work was for sale.
Most people will never learn that lesson. They will keep on paying for their rent and groceries and expecting "online" stuff to be free, without realizing or caring that writers also have bills. But knowing one person had her own beliefs bite her in the butt made me feel somewhat vindicated. lol
That's quite the lesson in instant karma! I hope she's changed her tune.
lol, right? She did. Said she'd never use a pirating site again to get stuff free lol
You struck a chord here with me. Getting righteous about money and writing is just another way writers sabotage themselves. Getting paid is what makes us professionals and I am a professional communicator, so I expect readers to pay something to read my stuff, if they can.
Exactly, Martin. They can if they want to. Expecting others to do the same is the problem. Hobby and profession are not the same.
OMG! There are lots of people pledging writing for free on Medium...
Tell it to Tim Denning... Lol.
I just attended his webinar yesterday.
Great post, Linda!
lol -- and they can pledge their hearts out. As long as they don't think we all should.
Did he advocate writing for free yesterday?
I'm going to bet on no. lol
Thanks for touching on this important but infuriating subject.
Since we're doing comments, here's one of mine from an exchange I had back when I was an agent:
If you want to make a living from writing books, you go where the money is. That does not only mean genre, but a polished product: a well-crafted, compelling story AIMED at an audience that pays money to read it. The people who repeatedly sell thousands of books write to meet audience expectations. That’s a business mindset, and like any business tactic it requires research and targeted effort. The idea you should only write for the sake of art, that you should make something only for yourself, is non-artist BS. It is rooted in the centuries old starving-artist mythology and tries to perpetuate an imagined reality. Many of the old masters, classic composers, modern talents like Picasso, Puzo, Patterson, Tan, Follet, Heinlein, and hundreds more A-list authors have created for the express purpose of selling the work (read their interviews, they will happily tell you so). Art for art’s sake is more the credo of the spectator than the working artist. This isn’t to say that targeting a market won’t intersect with your “passion.” It happens all the time. But making a consistent living through your creative work—the artist’s dream—rests squarely upon your ability to make work that sells. -JM
Well said 👆🏻
I do write because I enjoy it. I'm retired with a nice pension, and I don't NEED the money. For years, I never considered publishing. Then came a tipping point when I decided that I wanted to share my work. Just writing was no longer enough; I started to need an audience, which put me in a different mindset altogether. Writing escalated from a personal hobby to an avocation, and if I wanted to consider myself a successful author, I needed to improve my skill set. I also realized that I'd have to learn about marketing if I wanted to find readers who like what I do. Just looking for my tribe, may fans—I know they are out there. Just gotta find 'em.. That's been a journey and a half, too. Also not free, and still in progress.
I still don't NEED the money, but now I want it. For one thing, self-publishing comes with costs. For another, I've invested in becoming a better, more polished writer. That didn't happen by accident, nor was it free...and it's ongoing. Then, marketing...
I think of people buying my work as an affirmation that I'm doing something right. A kudos, if you will. And making more money than I spend is my benchmark; that's when I can say I'm an author without blushing. I still write because I love it, but it is so much more now. I don't need financial success as a writer, but now I view it as a measure of success. And yes, I also want the money for it's own sake.
I have never hidden my desire and my right to get paid for my writing. In my 4 years on Medium I've openly admitted that more than once. And, like David said, I've been writing online since long before I started earning money for it.
There should never be shame in the game.
Loved this article. Such an important topic. I don't know why people think writers and other artists shouldn't be paid.
Yes. We do our art because we love doing it. But that doesn't mean we shouldn't get paid for it.
I especially love the part about people taking comfort in reading and experiencing healing from it.
Art heals. And that goes for any kind of art. Whether it be acting, dance, painting, etc.
I once took an art class and the teacher said she knows a lot of people who were saved by art.
Art heals us and the planet. Without art, I don't know if the world would survive.
Thanks for another great article.
I held off making writing my career for five years because I wasn't sure writers earned any money. Then I quit and quickly began earning more than I ever had (as a freelance content marketer). That image, I believe, is still there for fiction writers, but it's worse. Not only do they not make money, we're not even sure if they should.
Hogwash.
They absolutely should. A dedicated writer who earns enough to sustain themselves has a much higher chance to write more and better books.
I can't pledge my support right now, but I will, trust me. I like your writing and as soon as i get my substack Newsletter finished and published i'll get back to you. I am an actor, but early on I discovered it wasn't going to be a financial windfall. I do it for one reason at 82 years old I need the challenge and i enjoy doing it. But I would love to make money at it, but i don't. Only 12 percent of actors who belong to SAGA make enough to survive. I think it's less than 30K a year. There are literally thousands who do it for the love of doing it. They work their butts off as waitresses or waiter or painters, or they work at trader joes or have other jobs.
Linda, you and I are in vehement agreement on this point. It's absurd to expect artists of any kind to be self-sacrificial — especially if they're pursuing their art or craft as a full-on profession.
As David said, some great writers don't earn enough to support themselves only through writing. Very few writers make a good living. So, under such circumstances, money should not determine whether we should continue writing.
And as to James Patterson, he earned the title "factory writer." I bet he doesn't do most of his writing anymore. He has become an institution. But his case is above and beyond reasonable. For the rest of us, we have to plug along and do the best we can. And to go into this profession with the illusion that we don't care to make money is a fallacy.
Also, there are other reasons to write. Some seek fame and fortune. Others for the respect of family peers. Or what is purely noble is purely to impact positively on the world.
In short, we should continue writing whether it makes us rich or not.