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David Perlmutter's avatar

Lately, reading about Medium for me has been like reading about a neighborhood or city where you used to live. You remember the good and forget the bad unless the latter is clearly brought up...

And it's not just Americans who have difficulty keeping money in the bank- it's a regular occurrence for myself and other Canadians as well, unfortunately.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

It sure is, David. The wealth divide is growing everywhere not just in America. Good point.

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Katie's Confessions's avatar

I never focused on money. I was always delighted when David Perlmutter read my stories. Thank you for being so kind to so many of us.

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Bryant Duhon's avatar

I took a writing course from a successful medium writer. It's really good. Basic, but I needed a back to basics reset. But, man, do the algorithms love to shove a bunch of shit courses in my face now!

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Linda Caroll's avatar

That made me laugh. Although if a person is going to take a course, taking one on writing probably beats the heck out of one on how to succeed on a specific platform.

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Bryant Duhon's avatar

I have got to figure out how Substack works better, just saw this, but, AMEN! I needed a back-to-basics reset. Been following the guy for a few years, most of his advice I already knew, but going through and adding structure to a . . . let's so free form model of producing (and I mostly successfully edited a magazine for a decade) has been hugely helpful. Plus, he's very low on the BS factor.

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Mark Palmer's avatar

Thank you. It does sometimes feel that the way to succeed online is to write about how to succeed online. That has never interested me - I want to write about what matters to me, and it would be great if both people read and enjoyed it and I could make some money from it. I am getting there, but I regularly have to remind myself that I need to just keep going and I do not need any more courses no matter how enticing they look!

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Funny thing is they are actually the minority. It's just that they are so pervasive and frequent it seems like there's more than there really is. I mute them and even if it's a bit like whack-a-mole, it does reduce the amount I see.

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Joe Luca's avatar

The reason people make money on Medium talking about Medium is that the algorithm - despite protestations to the contrary - still distributes these so they are getting reads. I'm not sure what percentage of the Internet is about making money - 50% - 70%, but it's a lot. We are all trying to use the system that replaced the system (magazines, newspaper, publishers) that used to curate the world's writers. But the new system is glutted with stuff. It's unwieldy, inefficient and wholly biased. So, writers feel anxious about getting their stuff read. They'll read and try new things in the hope it will improve their chances - but it's just more of what you wrote about. Medium must bring people back to curate, to help with distribution, otherwise Medium becomes the world's largest library. Passively holding countless works, while keeping the aisles dusted so people traveling them looking for something good to read will be sneeze-free in their journey.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Money programs and porn, humans being what they are. Funny thing is I have not seen much of it lately. For a while there I was mercilessly muting everyone who writes that stuff. Don't know if that helped or if it's a crapshoot. Although I did unfollow an entire publication that runs a lot of that stuff and that helped.

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Untrickled by Michelle Teheux's avatar

Yes. If you’re writing about how to make money writing, your advice might only apply to people interested in writing about how to make money writing. I want to hear from someone who makes money writing about chickens or parenting or doll collecting or motorcycle maintenance or cooking — ANYTHING but writing about money.

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Walter Rhein's avatar

Ah! That's a great distinction!

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Right? I once wrote about a woman named the chicken lady. That piece did so well it almost made me cry.

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Untrickled by Michelle Teheux's avatar

PLEASE CAN I READ ABOUT THE CHICKEN LADY RIGHT NOW!!!

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Linda Caroll's avatar

See why I love you so much? First your posts. Then your book. Then THIS. Yes. Yes, you can. Here you go: https://medium.com/history-of-women/i-did-not-expect-to-be-in-awe-of-someone-called-chicken-lady-dc9090acacd0

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Stephen Davenport's avatar

I read it too, great story Linda :)

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Fi's avatar

That is one bittersweet story. What a woman. I didn't think anyone could love chooks more than me. Bless you Nancy Luce. Bless you Linda for sharing it and writing it so beautifully.

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Fi's avatar

Thank you for asking Michelle!

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Ben Woestenburg's avatar

I make a whopping $45/month writing here, and I've never been happier! Obviously, money doesn't matter as much to me as writing novellas no one is reading.

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Gael MacLean's avatar

Perfect timing. I have been weighing the options of Medium vs Subtack lately. Only because I'm finding my daily digests full of poorly written, all-about-me, me-me content. I find people's stories interesting if they are a well-written story. Do I care if you are upset because your wife burnt the omelet? Again. Not so much. I have been enjoying all your articles of late. Thank you.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

That is such a good point Gael. So many people have not quite grasped the difference between a personal essay and a journal post. People need to be able to connect to it. If they can't, it belongs in a journal. And that's kind of harsh, but it's a lesson I had to learn the hard way too. Few years ago no one read my stuff because it wasn't that interesting. lol. And thank you for the kind compliment. :)

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Gael MacLean's avatar

Succinctly put 'a personal essay and a journal post' nice one.

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Carlyn Beccia's avatar

haha this! SO much narcissism in my feed too. It's like the censored version of Reddit.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Censored version of Reddit for sure. Maybe even Quora in some corners.

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Breaking Free from Narc Abuse's avatar

It’s hard to get noticed. It takes a lot of work. Solid consistent work—and even then it is often not enough. It’s got to matter. And figuring all that out doesn’t come naturally to most of us. Those articles are so tempting. We love the idea of a magic wand existing. Thanks for this article. :).

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Linda Caroll's avatar

You're so right. It's a ton of work. And a little luck on the side, too. God, I wish there was a magic wand. I suspect if there is one, it shows up in overalls and looks like work. lol

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Karen Wettstein's avatar

There are plenty of opportunities to learn from great writers on Medium without buying a course to learn how to write to make better earnings on Medium.

Those articles sparkle for the newcomer who sees dollar signs. I remember being excited by them. How many ways are there to regurgitate Medium stories into how-to-make-money products where individual skill and talent are what produce quality craftsmanship?

How many courses does someone need? Different techniques, yes, but that does not guarantee a new writer’s immediate success and a return on the investment of the course.

I'd rather spend $20 (it's $11.99 on Kindle) and buy the book On Writing Well and share what I learn by paying it forward to help someone else, just as many writers do on Medium. For free.

Thanks, Linda

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Margie Peterson's avatar

Absolutely. There is no way I want to teach. I want to be on the sidelines "reading" the story that lets them succeed.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

That is an excellent perspective Karen. It's the step a lot of people don't take and that's why it sets apart those who do. Love it. :)

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Karen Wettstein's avatar

Thank you, Linda!

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Katie's Confessions's avatar

You're the best!

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Carlyn Beccia's avatar

I am getting inundated with how to make money on Medium posts lately. I believe the reason Medium promotes these posts is because they are trying to attract hobby writers and not professional authors and journalists.

Follower counts matter little. I used to average 1000 new followers a week. Now… I have been stuck at the same 132K followers for the last 6 months. Follower counts are merely who Medium favors. One day you are promoted and one day they drop you like it’s hot. 🤷🏻‍♀️

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Linda Caroll's avatar

That's a sobering though, Carlyn. I noticed the wild swings in my follower counts too. Several thousand one month, couple hundred the next. Guess I need to look at what I was writing when I was on the upswing, see if that makes any difference. Probably not, but who knows. So much is a crapshoot.

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Carlyn Beccia's avatar

I don't think follower counts are a reflection of strong writing. It's just who Medium decides to promote. Many of the top writers (by follower couns) had what I called a "soft firing." We were not really fired since we don't work directly for Medium, but they plugged in the parameters to their algo to drop us.

Medium has millions of writers to choose from. It is almost impossible to stay on top. There's always someone who can replace you for a cheaper rate.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

That's true. There's always someone happy to write for a few bucks and be thrilled. But I hope they're smart enough to realize that quality is what keeps readers paying the subscription. Writers are the minority and they already experienced people leaving in droves about a year ago. Hopefully they don't have to repeat that experience to learn that good writers keep readers paying.

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Martin Edic's avatar

What she said.

I think you covered it but people are still going to try this tired road to ‘success fast’. It’s everywhere. I see Substack writers crowing about how they got their first one hundred subs. Not paid subs, free subs. Are there tips that work? Of course, but they are seldom secrets and most likely to be common sense.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Absolutely right Martin. Three things. Common sense. Writing skill. And learning the platform. I still see writers not adding tags for heaven's sakes.

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Margie Peterson's avatar

I write on Medium to practice writing and bring something I experienced to others. At the beginning, I remember reading those how to posts which turned out to be subheads with no details--with the link to their offer. YuckYuckYuck. The boost program is creating an encyclopedia sameness to stories. Posts that should be riveting are boring because they are too long and tidied up with a predictable CTA. Readers want to know what is going to happen next or be so excited they tell their own story. I got a sweet comment that made by week on my short poem "Hymn on the Street." The piece did exactly what I wanted it to and my hear soared. I give TIPS to servers who really are working paycheck to paycheck!

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Man, you reminded me of my favorite pet peeve. Posts that end with "in summary" or "in conclusion." Or poetry that ends with an explanation of what it's about. Makes me want to send them to read some real essayists. Go, read Atwood, Walker, Lamott. I so hear you on how a comment can make a writer's heart soar. Had that happen this week too. It's glorious.

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Walter Rhein's avatar

This is timely and I appreciate your thoughts. I wrote an article a couple of months ago titled "Writing about writing is more lucrative than writing." Lately, I've had more people approach me about giving classes, and I've been contemplating how to do it in a way that felt like it offered real value. On the one hand, I recognize that even if I work on somebody's draft for hours and hours, it's still unlikely that they'll make any money on it. At the same time, I'm confident that I can make them a better writer... if they only listen, which most of them don't. Part of me is tempted to charge people because maybe they'll be more likely to listen if it's information they paid for. I used to enjoy writing "make money writing" articles for Medium, because that's what you did 4-5 years ago. I like discussing these topics with my other writer friends to see what ideas they're using. But, as you say, for every helpful article out there, there are probably 100 that are just meant to con you out of cash. I guess it's just a matter of people going into things with their eyes open. Thanks for writing!

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Linda Caroll's avatar

That's it exactly Walter. It's just going in with their eyes open. Lots of people spend money on things other folk think is dumb, me included. But knowing what we're buying, that's key. I wrote a piece a couple years ago called Proof That Most "Medium Tips” Aren’t True Or Helpful. Went through all the most common tips and disproved every one with proof. And then to top it off, nothing is cut in stone. What works for one person might not for another.

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Walter Rhein's avatar

Then there are the people who sincerely believe something works even when there's no evidence that it does. It's really hard to let go of a superstition! Those aren't necessarily maliciuos people, and sometimes I have to remember to hold off my skepticism. I'll have to dig up your article about untrue Medium tips. I think I might have read that but I'm not certain.

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Kathy Ayers's avatar

So spot on. ‘Side hustle for sale. Value not guaranteed.’

I lived in Los Angeles and studied screenwriting for years. It dawned on me that people teaching writing out there outnumber working writers by some ratio I don’t think anyone can calculate.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Kathy you made me laugh. I hear it's bad in screenwriting too.

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Sieran Lane's avatar

Hey Linda, yeah as with all fields, the scammers (even the possibly well intentioned ones like the guy you mentioned) make everyone else look bad. Terrible therapists make all therapists look like scammers. Awful doctors make all doctors look cruel. Etc.

I say this because I've taken courses by some very successful Medium writers (at least 100+ K followers and making at least $4000+ a month), and they have helped me a lot. Miraculously, I have actually made back the money I needed to pay for the courses and more. But anyway, my advice to others is that, if you want to take a course, check for publicly available proof of competence. Plus, testimonials from friends or people you respect and trust.

Even with the very top earning Medium writers (I won't name names as promised, but you know who I'm talking about!), I was initially skeptical. But in both cases, even though they had abundant proof of their success, what really convinced me, was that both of them had either friends or people I respect and trust recommend their courses. And yes, my experience has actually been very positive.

Another thing is that there are of course no guarantees for anything. I just went in, not expecting anything huge, but just to up my writing skills. And I got much more than I expected. Partly out of luck, and partly because I did many of the things suggested to me. Knowing something is one thing, actually doing it is another. Especially if those steps are hard and outside of your comfort zone. There are different roads to success, but some roads are more likely than others...

One last thing: What I enjoy most about the courses, is the sheer social accountability and influence. Again, it's easy to know what to do to perform well. It's not so easy to actually do the things and to keep doing it, even when you hit obstacles. But being in a group of highly driven, ambitious people, really helps keep up motivation. Not blindly ambitious, either, since they do openly share doubts and fears, and we help each other out on them. Our instructors also encourage honesty from us and help us with our situations. Getting personalized advice for your situation, is worth tons more than just reading tips on the internet that could apply to anyone (but not necessarily to you).

Moreover, I've noticed how much more positive my self-talk has become. Being around people like my instructors and classmates, have influenced me a lot. I'm not as cynical or defeatist as I used to be. I'm a lot more forgiving and accepting of mistakes and imperfections, in both myself and in others. I'm much more willing to take (reasonable) risks. More willing to reach out to people, even if I'm shy and anxious.

Ok I know many people would see my comment as scammy (or at best, brainwashed). But again, I emphasize the importance of finding publicly available proof (such as a massive number of Medium followers, like 100 K followers or above, etc), and also testimonials from friends and folks you respect and trust. You're right that many of them are scammers or just bad. But some of them are gems. We just need to know how to separate the wheat from the chaff.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Hey Sieran. Per my own rules I won't say names. I know what course you took and he's good people. I've worked with him outside of Medium. Also worth mentioning he doesn't sell how to get rich on Medium, he sells how to write better. And it's up to the consumer to decide if that's what they consider writing better. For some it is, for others maybe not. But you also bring up a good point in that buying and course and doing the tasks aren't the same thing. The vast majority of people who buy a course never complete it. So many layers. It's like we are all made like onions. In layers. Peel one away, there's another one. :)

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Sieran Lane's avatar

Thanks for your thoughtful reply, Linda! Yeah I remember him actually critiquing people who promise that you can become a millionaire (or some similar gigantic amount). His promises are much more realistic but also positive. There are possibilities but no guarantees. Yeah that was another draw for me. They were optimistic but didn't make crazy promises, haha. True that most people don't even finish the courses they buy. Or they finish it, but hardly implement anything in the course... I agree as well that people can choose whether they want to buy or not. The courses aren't for everyone, depending on their goals, needs, writing preferences, etc.

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Mark M Morgan's avatar

I know exactly who you're talking about. I first ran across his writing about a month ago. Bragging about how fast he was accumulating followers, etc, etc. I'd say most of the people who write about writing and building a following on medium are going to see a bit more success as like you said, it pushes buttons. And like you said, try writing anything but.

I listened to something online earlier this week with Tim and someone else in some kind of master class and the someone else was building Tim up in regards to all his followers. Again... "How to" stuff. Side note--not complaining about Tim as I like some of his stuff.

Here's the deal though. I can learn more about writing by simply reading your articles. From structure to ideas and layout to content. And if I'm going to pay for a class, do I want some new kid with no credentials. He may have a masters in journalism, who knows?

No... If I'm going to take a class, it's going to be from someone good who has credentials. Like Linda Carol or Roz Warren or maybe Kelly Eden.

I've been on Medium for two or three years and only recently ran across Markham Heid. He doesn't write about "writing" at all. He writes about health and lifestyle. He has 390K followers on Medium--More than Tim. This is a guy you can learn from. At the end of his articles he doesn't ask for anything. You get closure and that's it. No subscribe, no buy me a coffee, no nothing.

If you like his stuff, you'll follow and if you don't, you won't. I went back and read some of his beginning work and as I followed his timeline, I could see changes he made in his writing and publications.

Another writer new to my radar is Walter Rhein. I love that guy.

I certainly appreciated this piece.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Agree Mark, your first paragraph nails it. If Walter is scrolling comments he'll be happy to see that comment. He's good people. And now I'll go look up Markham, too. :)

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Katie's Confessions's avatar

So well said, Linda. As soon as I see a timeline like that, I avoid the writer. Like you, I like to rush over and read something from those kind enough to read my work. I think I learned that from you. Yesterday I went to three profiles. Each a member for a month or two. Each writing how to be successful on Medium. How would they know? Thanks, Linda.

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