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Linda Caroll's avatar

I wish it was about the money. I could at least understand that. But I'm not sure it is. I think it's really just about one person thinking what worked for his publication will work for the whole site and what worked for him will work for everyone. Except, it doesn't really work that way. We're not all selling something on the side. Some of us just wanted to write.

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David Perlmutter's avatar

I don't know what this says about me, Linda, but I'm happy to get any sorts of readers any old way. Some of us might be in this game exclusively or primarily for the money, but I'm not. If I can develop a reputation for being a good writer and someone who supports other writers in their time of need, that's all I want.

To paraphrase Jesse Jackson: I may not be making a living writing, but I am somebody.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

I hear a lot of people say that, David. And that's fine. Really, it is. But there should be room for a good writer to make a decent income at it, too. I had one of the top writers on Medium message me privately and say if they had my writing skill and their list, they'd clean up. That hit me in a weird place. Food for thought.

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Thinking Green's avatar

I think I understand what you're saying but Medium seems to make it incredibly difficult now to generate any readers at all except for the ones I manage to snag through social media posts, tagging, and dropping my link into comments on other stories around the Web. Too much work. I turned to Medium for help generating reads. If it's not providing that service, there seems to be little sense in staying on the platform.

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Martin Von Mars's avatar

I agree David but the thing is, one does need to make a living.

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Jenine Baines's avatar

I am with you, David. xox

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Jill Ebstein's avatar

Excellent questions raised and I have the same reluctance as you do about what I do with my (small) readership. I won't just plant them anywhere. I am getting reading to ask my Medium subscribes whether they would be willing to follow me on substack but I will never be one to do a grand transplanting.

I am very glad that writing is my hobby because if I needed my Medium payout as my source of income, it would be a very dark world for me.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

lol Jill, you're not kidding on the last paragraph.

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Jessica's avatar

I clicked the heart, but not because I enjoyed this. More like it breaks my heart. I've begun focusing more on my Substack, because I see more potential here. Thanks for clarifying why my Medium traffic is slowing to a halt.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

I'm with you, Jessica. Maybe time to focus more on Substack. Or some other list. My views on Medium are tanking, too. It sucks because I did a lot of work to build an audience there.

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Jan 7, 2023
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Linda Caroll's avatar

That's a very valid question, June.

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Kevin Alexander's avatar

I think we will start seeing more & more familiar names from Medium pop up over here as people finally see what is happening. FWIW, I would be very happy to stand corrected if these changes turn out to benefit the "middle class" tier of Medium writers.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

I would also be happy to say I stand corrected. Just don't think that's very likely. lol

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Kristin DeMarr's avatar

Same. I used to have a lot of my writing distributed when I first started writing on Medium. Then they stopped doing that. Then they changed the pay structure again, and again... In the old days I was excited to publish on medium in hopes of building an audience by getting my writing curated, but once that went away, I lost my excitement. Now, I pretty much “republish” what I write for substack on Medium and don’t focus any particular energy on Medium. I don’t waste time posting in all the medium Facebook groups because it takes a large amount of time to do it properly (post and read others to generate more reads)... I’m not focused on making money - it would just be nice to be able to generate some income from it. I average about twenty cents a month from Medium 😂 I probably need to stop paying to write there.

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Kevin Alexander's avatar

I hit the exit on most FB groups pretty quick- for a lot of the same reasons you've mentioned. I also noticed that the only thing a lot of writers were putting out were FB comments. I didn't want to fall into that same trap.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Cripes, sorry to hear Medium is such a bust for you. I suspect a lot of people are experiencing the same. I am making about 25% of what I did a year ago. It's old.

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Kevin Alexander's avatar

As you note, people come to Medium for the social flywheel. The audience is already there. That's a huge value add compared to, say, just having a blog somewhere in the ether. That's also why so many writers are willing to pay $5/month to be there. It's an easy investment with a (potentially) huge upside--and part of that investment is the understanding that Medium will supply the traffic.

Now we have the CEO on record as saying that we will need to bring our audience to the show.

That's a lot of dissonance for writers to wrestle with.

To be clear, I appreciate Tony's "real talk." It's a refreshing change from what we had previously. But more and more, it feels like we're returning the era of gatekeeping pubs and away from the indie writer.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Agree with that last paragraph, Kevin. Ii appreciate that he talks publicly a lot. But I'm wondering how this will shake out in the long run. A lot of my readers tell me they aren't seeing my new posts in their feed. It's frustrating. Like you said -- lots of dissonance.

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Margie Peterson's avatar

They are thinking like business owners who don't understand who their customers are. Medium might have formidable business costs that are eating up their profit. That's not my fault.

If I violate someone's trust by misusing their email, they will NEVER trust me again. They show it by opting-out and not reading another thing by me. People must have have the freedom to say "No."

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Right? I so agree Margie. That's just something I'd never do. Might be time to build an actual list, but if I did, would I use it to drive external views on Medium? Not sure I would. You know?

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Marilyn Wolf's avatar

I agree 100% Margie.

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Linda Ann Robinson's avatar

Since Medium will have access to those lists owned by individual writers, will the Medium board decide to start marketing their platform to persons on that list?

Another question: will hackers be able to scrape those lists from Medium’s servers?

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Those are valid questions, Linda. On the first, I would hope the answer would be no. On the second -- good question. They seem to be able to scrape content, but can they scrape lists. I don't know, but I don't aim to help them find out. lol

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Linda Ann Robinson's avatar

Perhaps the answer to my first question is in the proverbial “fine print” of the user’s agreement.

These issues don’t affect me. But if they did, I would be wondering about Medium’s *integrity.*

Corporate greed has been running rampant in all sectors of the economy.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

And not just corporate greed, but the automatic assumption that they know what their customers want. That's another common one.

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Margie Peterson's avatar

Nope. Medium is an aggregator. My subscriptions is paying for the overhead. The cross-promotion should be organic. BTW--Would you consider being a podcast guest STOMP! with Debbie Walker? You would be fun, inspirational and an authority for those considering being self-employed. (STOMP stands for: Stronger Together on Middle-Pause, the pub on Medium)🌻

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Jill Ebstein's avatar

Margie, I'm interested in learning more about STOMP! Where do I go?

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Thinking Green's avatar

You are one of only two writers on Medium that keep me from cancelling my account, and you're the only reason I created a Substack account. I rarely ever write on Medium anymore because I find it an enormous waste of time. As someone without my own mailing list and who doesn't have 18 hours a day to try to build one, I originally turned to Medium to try to get more eyeballs on my writing -- a way of getting back in the game as someone who a long time ago used to make my fulltime living as a freelancer. The only time my stories generate any respectable number of views is when I really hustle to share the link to other sites/groups that may have interest in the piece in question -- or I tag the hell out of pieces on multiple social media posts. Medium doesn't pay us for those, of course. My lowest number of views/reads actually comes when my pieces land in big Medium publications. That seems to be the kiss of the death -- a big publication picks it up, and I get even fewer reads than self publishing. My dream is to rebuild my writing career -- writing again for a variety of national and local publications. I thought Medium could help me get some eyes on pieces written from the heart that really mean something to me, but that doesn't really happen. I know in my head that I would be way better off taking every second I waste on Medium and using it to pitch stories to real media outlets, and continue writing works in progress. I've even thought of Substack, which seems to make more sense, but it seems like I would have to invest the same enormous amount of time I don't have trying to build a list there -- or wait until I start publishing more frequently again in national publications and then using that to help build a list. I honestly have no idea.

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Sieran Lane's avatar

Woah when a big pub picks it up, you get even fewer views and reads than self-publishing? Could you elaborate on that? I have a relatively small following, of 950 ish, and I've been gradually pitching to larger pubs to gain more exposure. So I'm curious what's happening in the big pubs that I may not be aware of here. :O

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Sieran Lane's avatar

Hahaha I hadn't thought of that, but good point. 😂

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Linda Caroll's avatar

I find the same Sieran. The reason is that big publications tend to have more submissions, so each writer scrolls into oblivion faster. I'd had much more success with smaller publications.

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Sieran Lane's avatar

Oooh I see. I assumed that when they limit the number of stories they publish a day (like The Writing Cooperative does), that would make up for it. But I forgot about the total number of submissions in the pub. Yeah our stories will get swallowed up by the mass of other articles much faster...

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Linda Caroll's avatar

The first sentence is a might nice compliment, so thank you. One thing I can say is that Substack is much easier than building a traditional newsletter or blog because they have a program called "grow" that helps find your readers. I have another publication on Medium called History of Women and it's growing quite quickly. On average, half a dozen people per day from the Substack network, and I've done nothing to promote it. I will write more about it in the upcoming weeks. I think writers might like to know about it. :)

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Martin Von Mars's avatar

This seems like an underhanded way to increase Medium's profits by pressuring writers to convince people to join. If you spam your email list, coerce your family and friends to join Medium, you will be rewarded with a boost. Seems like it all is coming down to marketing, not writing. A change in the core purpose of the platform?

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Last sentence is a valid question, Martin.

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Samantha Lazar's avatar

Thank you for breaking this down for me. Self promotion is sooooooooooooo hard- especially because it takes up time I could be creating.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Yes, exactly. From my perspective, I have almost 18K readers but a lot of readers have told me they don't see my posts in their feed. It feels a lot like facebook, where not all followers get to see what people post. So what was the point of building followers if I have to go out and promote content to external readers?

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Sieran Lane's avatar

Hey Linda, yeah it's troubling the directions that Medium is taking. :( I initially felt some hope when Tony mentioned giving more power to editors in choosing what stories to boost. Since that could mean editors for more niche pubs, can help boost articles that would be ignored by the algo otherwise. But maybe I misunderstood what he said and was too optimistic. :(

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Linda Caroll's avatar

That's a good question, Sieran. He hasn't elaborated on how publications and editor roles will change so I guess we'll have to wait and see. If editors get the ability to boost posts, that might actually be a good change. But time will tell.

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Kevin Alexander's avatar

As an editor, he caught my attention with his comments about (finally!) offering some sort of pay for the work being done, but it's been crickets ever since. I'm starting to wonder if it was shot down, and he's hoping people will forget that it was ever brought up.

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Sieran Lane's avatar

That would be so sad! :( I hope not...As I was really looking forward to it.

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Denise Shelton's avatar

I think they want the Zulies and the umairs, and the Wildfires and the rest of us can suck eggs. Why should they promote our work? Because we're subscribers who provide content for practically nothing, that's why. Last month was my all time worst earning one in almost 3 years. I made more with zero followers than I do with over 2,000. What is even the point? I haven't found much benefit to sharing on Twitter, LinkedIn, etc. I think this is a sign that I need a new direction.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Yeah, I hear you. December was my worst month in over 2 years. Might be longer, but I didn't go back farther. Jessica said she is experiencing the same and has been focusing more on Substack, too. I don't know who is doing well. Self growth maybe? No idea. Not me, that's for sure. lol

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Julio Borroto's avatar

Hi Linda:

As always, you hit the right nerve. I enjoy your writing, and it’s like a stiff cup of coffee in the morning. I never relied on Medium.com to make money, even though I made a couple of dollars later — other than that, I would have starved a long time ago if I had depended on the site. I am a paying member and write when time permits me to.

If Medium.com weeded out the bad writers, they would have more readers, the ones that offer little to no helpful information; then, they would find it easier to create a larger following. Instead, they punish everyone by only boosting if you already have a following. So, does it no longer matter how or what you write, but how many followers do you have?

So many writers on Medium.com write about the same subject repeatedly to gain a following, and so much of it is clickbait.

They might be boosting writers that offer little to nothing, and it is because they have a considerable following. I expect that Medium.com will lose many writers. This might be my last year as a member because it will be the same hash I will run into every time.

To be clear, I am not a good writer; I am far from that. My information might not be helpful because everybody seems to be doing financially well, and I focus on budgeting and finding money in your home when you think you do not have it and getting out of credit debt. I know no one likes reading about that, but if there is one person I can help with their finances, the information is there.

Best Regards,

Julio Borroto | Respectfully, your fan.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

Hey Julio, thanks for the kind words. The real trouble is that taste is subjective. There are some people who write stuff I don't like. Money making schemes that are usually just the same old rehashed information. But they get views so obviously some people like them. I don't think it's going to get better if they give more exposure to all the people who can bring external traffic because being able to market a story doesn't mean it's good writing. You know? Have you considered Substack? I wonder if you'd do better here?

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Julio Borroto's avatar

Hi Linda,

Thanks so much. I never thought you would write back. I see quite some time has elapsed. I have subscribed to Substack, but I still need clarification about how it works. I want to use stories I wrote for Medium.com and throw those out there. I'll figure it out one way or another.

Sincerely, Your fans,

Julio

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Yan Huang's avatar

Oh boy...more noises happening at Medium. LOL.

First to answer your question -- I never have hundreds more views on any of articles when I promote on my Twitter (could be because my twitter a/c is new), or even when I try hard to promote on other places. Medium is built mainly for readers/writers INSIDE Medium, aka "internal views" anyway.

You know something else, Linda? This reminds me of Elephant Journal. I published 2 articles on there (also on Medium), last year, to experiment how it is like.

Most articles, especially when a writer is new, are encouraged to get boosts in their views via some kind of tiered payment or memberships (I can't remember now).

I am not sure how exactly EJ manage to keep profitable.

They even offer some kind of incentives each month for top 5 writers (anywhere between $50-200 I think).

They also have dedicated team of editors, who genuinely want to grow EJ continuously aligned with their values. It shows actually.

Then again, EJ has more niche than Medium.

I think there's 2 main catch here.

1) What is the heart, soul and intention or vision of Tony and his team?

Is it to cause more divide? (I agree with you BTW, there seem to be some "inner circle" going on!)

Is it really for the writers or for the readers?

Is it restore good writing and promote good reading, rather than just superficial topics like " how I make $ / gain followers / view on XYZ platform in ABC days?"

Is it to boost his ego as a CEO?

and

2) What is Medium's niche?

It seems to me they are trying to be everything to everyone! And hence it is confusing everyone, even to Tony, even if he thinks he is not. Maybe, just maybe Medium need to face it and stick to the boring niches of "money making, finance, personal development, productivity etc"?

I am not sure anymore. I am not counting on Medium anymore to give me traffic, stipend or good reads for that matter now. If I get a penny or 2 a month, I consider it as a gift from the Word-God. haha.

P.S. This seems like a hot topic! 26 comments in just 2 hours of publishing. LOL.

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Linda Caroll's avatar

You know what I think, Yan? My opinion only, but I think Tony looked at what worked for him in the past and thinks that's the way everyone should do it. I don't think he's stopped to consider what draws writers to Medium at all. I don't think he realizes how many of the most frequent readers are also writers. I really think he just believes that what worked for him and Better Humans will work for all of Medium. I don't know that, of course. But it's what it feels like to me.

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Yan Huang's avatar

You may be right.

But wait a min, doesn’t Medium has a truckload of data and data scientists to slice and dice them into insights for Tony to look into?

That’s what the UX / product team is for?

Hmmmm... 🤔

I’m now guessing then, Tony has a deep bias and is unaware about it?

If so, then I can only imagine the UX team might be having tough time trying to manage his bias.

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Margie Peterson's avatar

Here is the general link: https://sites.libsyn.com/401483. We are starting our third year!

Since this is Linda's Substack, I won't add my email.

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